Game of Thrones Spoiler Thread

#1

SPOILER WARNING - DISCUSSION ON GAME OF THRONES

— LAST CHANCE—

OK your own fault from now on

So That episode - the long night. I really enjoyed it in many ways, it had fantastic atmosphere, pacing, fan service, fun - it was an epic battle.

But it has several massive flaws that hinder it.

I’ll break it into three chunks - Lore, battle tactics and Fan Service

Battle tactics:

Jesus christ these people are the worst fucking soldiers.

Trebuchets in the field in front of the fire pits? No archers in the line, that don’t fire at all even when the zombies are right fucking there for ages? A cavalry charge straight into an unknown night? Which could have been a force that consisted of horse archers harassing and attacking the horde for days and days (and made better tv and drama to emphasise the scale of the threat while doing so?),

They fucked it. I’m sorry but as visually stunning as the shots were there was no sense of a believable battle at all, because absolutely nothing made any fucking sense from a military perspective. The phalanx and the trenches were awfully put together. They had soldiers without any lighting in front of their main trench. There were much better, logical ways of slowing a horde down that did not involve putting your best soldiers in the dark directly in harms way with a fucking castle behind you.

The Lore:

I won’t compare too much to the books but the fact the Night King is dead and the horde defeated after 8 seasons worth of build up is kind of…lame. This is a faction built of myth, come to life, with so many questions and mysteries behind them. They kind of just…lose a battle at Winterfell and vanish.

With the threat gone, learning the mystery loses value and meaning - the opponent is gone, so why worry? I hope they do something about this because the Night King is now just relegated to “zombie raising douche canoe” and any history or depth or motive is completely lost to Arya the Flying Ninja Assassin.

The Fan Service

A lot of faceless people die. A lot of heroes are put on the frontline RIGHT at the start of the battle and somehow, despite horde getting stronger and more powerful, they kill more and more and more. They kill way too many on their own.

The battle turned a bit ridiculous as there was no sense of them being a part of the world but above it. Compare and contrast to the battles earlier in the series - there’s a sense of “oh fuck” in every battle because of the worldbuilding they did.

None of that is here.

Flying Ninja Arya and Dany the Suddenly brilliant zombie killer back to back against a horde was the worst part.

Summary:

The show is Fun. cannot deny that. This was a spectacular episode with a brilliant tone and excellent pacing. Like I said at the start.

But it’s shallow. And I think that will be the defining characteristic of Season 7 and 8. It was all done for cool’s sake, not for the reasons people got into GoT in the first place. Visually, some stand out shots - the dothraki charging, the dragons in the pale moonlight above the clouds - really do carry the episode.

But there’s so many distracting details that take away so much from the characters and the world as well as the overall story that I am not sure the show will end on a note comfortable to fans. And because of the runaway success of the show, the book’s plot threads and direction, if they are ever finished, might lose their impact.

I dunno. Maybe I’m being a grouch but I cannot take Jon Snow seriously as a commander with those tactics, or Arya as anything more than “scary ninja lady”.

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#2

I agree with you on most of that, and I’d just like to add that I think Arya deserved her role as flying ninja. This isn’t a sudden warrior change like Dany. This is something she’s been working towards for years, ever since she was learning to sneak around King’s Landing trying to catch cats. (And I’m quite happy it wasn’t Jon who killed the Night King.) Arya was an unexpected choice but at least her skills match up.

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#3

True, there was at least the backstory and build up to Arya.

I just have no idea how she flew across the godswood. Was cool as fuck though!

#4

They shoud have shot some arrows out and or treb shots to light up the battlefield before charging.

I thought there would have been more of a fight with the night king after seeing that he was immune to a roasting from a dragon and then he was dead by Arya’s dagger. That was a cool scene as we saw how quick he was when Theon charged him with a spear. Guess he wasn’t prepared for her to just drop the dagger and then grab it with her other hand.

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#5

All good points, for the horse charge i thought it was that the dothraki don’t really have tactics then just CHARGE AFGAFGA RAPE PILLAGE RAPE.

And i love that Arya ( my all time favourite character ) killed the Night King she had trained for it and has be foreshadowed for years since season 2/3 i think with mlisadra ( buchered that name) the red woman saying shut many eyes, Brown eyes ( Walder Fray), Green eyes ( peter balish or cersie) and blue eyes ( Night King). Also when sam was reading a book from the measters about whats killed the dead the dagger on the page looks ALOT like the dagger that bran gives arya and subsequently killed old blue boi.

As weird as it might be to say i donno, the expected thing to do would be kill alot of main cast but the unexpected thing to do is keep them. Plus we need most of them for some drama with queen cersie and maggies the frogs prophecy of her, Cleganebowl 2019.

also this broke me.

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#6

I loved it, and I’ve read a lot of different views on it. Many agree with you @Xander and to a degree I do too, but heres my views on it and some of your views.

Battle tactics are very bad, i agree but given that both Jon and Danni are not generals I can past that. Using the Dothraki as your 1st attack isnt wise, but as Reno has pointed out, it is there only way/knowledge of how to fight, and they are the most patient/practical people. Bigger issues is why attack when you are defending a castle, better defenses would have been called for but I can look buy that, as they knew the only way to stop this was to kill the NK and the only way really off doing that was to attack them enough to draw him out. Hence why they when head 1st at them.

The lore. Its called Game of Thrones, not Game of kill the Night Knight. So while they could have done a bit more with this (I think you’ll find out alot more about them in the next episode) I think they paced it brilliantly and by not drawing it out have left more what ifs as to what has happened/going to happen. I love this.

On Arya killing the NK, its brilliant. Ive read so much on how she got there, how she killed him and everyone points out the same things. How did she get to the NK unnoticed? She grew up there, she knows most places. In season one, she even shuck up on Jon in that very spot without him know. She was also train as an assassin by the faceless man. You seen her sneak by the Wraiths in the library, showing she has the skills to get by them. Then the Red Witch realised when she seen her that she was the one in the prophecy, after her vision the 1st time she seen her. Also, the dagger that killed the NK, was the one that Bran gave her, they one Little Finger tried to kill him with. It was called Catspaw (I believe, or used buy a Catspaw assassin) and as @Reno says it is the one in the book Sam was reading.

As for killing off the main characters, I think its a massive curve ball, and you’ll see some of them dropping soon when you dont expect it.

I shouldnt have, but this made me laugh a bit when I watched it, was a bit like hulk in the 1st avengers movie! She was brilliant though and they wrote that part brilliantly for her death!

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#7

Finally caught up with episode 2 and 3 last night.

Yeah - completely agree regarding the tactics… or complete lack of them. The Dothraki might only have one method of attack - but owing to the fact that any dead will become an army against you, you’d be better off not using them at all. Equally, forward facing cavalry charges are great to puncture thin lines. Not the case here - so you’d be better off holding them in reserve and using them as a flank attack later in the battle. Like when the undead are standing at the palisades. What was that about?

Equally, some of the scenes where everyone was dead apart from the main characters still fighting. Erm. Hordes of undead anyone? I know, I know, artistic license and it’s a story… but yeah…

Battle of the bastards was far better imho.

I’m happy that this season hasn’t just been a build up to this battle and then nothing. The fact we have a few more episodes left is great to finalise and tie up everything else. Be interesting to see how many are left alive to fight Cersei.

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#8

rewatched most of it yesterday and somthing i noticed is how much of a swarm the dead are is there much you can do tactically against them anyway? like trying to fight the sea with a spoon you can make a splash but it’s still a fucking lot of water. Unless you exploded it all wityh a fire dragon :stuck_out_tongue:

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#9

Fuck me! Shit just got real

#10

Yep, more death and some for shadowing i do not like!

EPISODE 4 SPOILERS!

Arya saying that she won’t becoming back :s

and i feel Jon send Ghost north and not keeping him at winterfell or taking him to war in kingslanding is he’s way of letting go of being a Stark i donno tho.
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#11

Aye, but what about the discussion over who should reign, once Cersei is defeated? :wink:

#12

If she is defeated, they need a mericle to win.

that being said i have a theory, We havn’t heard or seen from Dario Naharis for a while now it could be possible he learns of dannys struggles and brings reinforcements from Mariene and the other freed citys across the sea.

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#13

That is a common though for a lot of people. The second sons still have a large army that she left behind to protect the people.

#14

That and the case of the female Ironborn who took her fleet back to the Iron Islands to transport them…

#15

Where Xander had trouble enjoying episode 3 because the battle tactics were questionable, I had trouble enjoying episode 4 as soon as it got to the fleet attack.

From Dany, on a dragon, somehow getting surprised by a fleet of ships, to Missandei getting fished out of the water and everyone somehow knowing she was taken rather than, you know, killed, with all the others in the attack, to Tyrion’s speech…

It seems to be a theme in the show that people think they can convince Cersei by appealing to her love for her kids. Ned did it and got killed. Tyrion tried it before to get Cersei to join the fight at Winterfell and it didn’t work, why try it again now? When she’s backed into a corner, Cersei doubles down, always.

However, it seems like they’re setting it up for a re-run of Jaime killing the mad king (or queen, in this case) who’d rather see the city burn than surrender. I’d be up for seeing that!

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#16

Jamie repeats history. Stabs the mad Queen from behind, her last sound a mad wail. Plot twist - different sword.

#17

Jamies sword is called Widows wail so theres that. my theroy is Jamie won’t kill Cersei but Arya will wearing Jamie’s face.

that was stupid. Teh adjatages to being in the sky is you can see whats coming -_-

It seems it’s loosing some of the greyness from characters now and just pigeon holing people as Cersei as the evil bitch, danny going mad ( with greif ) and becoming her father and Jon snow hero for every one! i meen i don’t mind that as a outcome as im not a fan of danny or cersei and Jon is a top tier character for me ( Arya is top )

Also also why didn’t the best doggo in westoros get a good boi petting and goodbye!

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#18

I think there is going to be a massive twist and Gendry could end up on the throne after Danny making him a lord. Jon Snow will end up back up North. Don’t think Danny will survive, Jamie kidnaps Cersei and does a runner and there will be a season 9.

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#19

Danny was always talking about breaking the wheel and the fights for the throne why not do away with kings landing as the sole seat of power and split the kingdom into the 7 kingdoms and have 7 rules.

Sansa queen in the north
Robyn king in the vale
Yara queen in the iron isle
Gendrey king of the stormlands
Edmure ( i think he’s still about no idea) king of the riverlands
They said theres a new prince in dawn
Jon or danny as king/queen of dragonstone

just a thought

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#20

That’s something else I thought might happen but I hope now as the whole thing is about the iron throne fight I can see someone sitting on it but having a council of others that help her rule and vote on things.

Who knows